Dances with Wolves

Dudes, talk about the best movie ever! (Okay, maybe not the best movie ever, but the awesome movie that it is) Mary is so fabulous in this movie! I'll write more on this later...



I'll also post some avatars/sigs I've made inspired by it.

Should i make a Graphics thread?? for people to post avatars and abnners etc that they have made?

and OMG i love this film so much! KC and MM work so well together and i can't believe she didn't win an award for this (she didn't, did she?) I love the moment when she is in the water and he comes along and she spots him and says something about her being in Mourning before kissing him. *sigh* i love her so much in this film!

I was thinking about that. We could have a place for people to post avatars and sigs as well as if anyone needs help making them.

I know! That scene is just so beautiful. And the buffalo hunt gets me teary eyed every time. I wrote out a blog about the movie as well as the potential sequel that I'll have to post up here.

Garbo wrote:I know! That scene is just so beautiful. And the buffalo hunt gets me teary eyed every time. I wrote out a blog about the movie as well as the potential sequel that I'll have to post up here.

Great to see this! I doing a rewatch of it at the moment and am up to the halfway point. Yes I know I should be studying or working on my assignment but...

I remember first time seeing the buffalo. This may sound strange but I had completely managed to forget what a buffalo looked like... hadn't seen any pictures of them since I was very young, so the whole time when it was like where is the buffalo... it was driving me crazy to see what one actually looked like.

One thing that struct me as I was rewatching it is the pacing. It focuses on the moment and doesn't seem in a rush to go anywhere fast and does this without seeming to drag. Its such a welcome change from most movies where it is go.. go.. go.. the entire time!

Here's from my livejournal:

DWW:

Okay, so a former professor and good friend of mine and I were talking this past semester about Dances with Wolves. Dan is incredibly intelligent and I always value his opinion even if we don't always agree (*ahem* Dan, Emma Thompson can act :p) and we enjoy discussing movies and movie adaptations of books (we are stoked for the PARADISE LOST movie, if it will ever be made and released).

Shortly before this semester ended, he and I got into a discussion about Dances with Wolves because his wife is a huge BSG fan and we got to talk about how President Roslin is Stands with a Fist and he made fun of me for never connecting that (hey, I'm kinda slow!). He made a comment about not liking DWW and I was all like "WHA'?" and his reasoning was that he wanted DWW to fall in love with a Native because it would be "taboo" in the literary circle (he's not against Mary at all; he thinks Mary is amazing and incredibly hot for being 56- he also likes redheads having married one and now produced one). He just didn't like that two white people had to fall in love amidst a film that was breaking ground for the way we view Natives.

I saw the film in the theaters because I was raised by good people: God fearing liberally thinking horse people. My mom and her BFF's had to see it; it had romance, Natives, the Badlands, and Kevin Costner who, despite his mullet, seemed to be a big deal back then. I was young enough not to care about that (his bare white ass scarred me for life), but old enough to love the movie. I watched it periodically throughout the years, but it wasn't until recently that I actually read the book because a. I love the movie and b. one of my ex's (not Matt; the Jerk) said that Mary McDonnell wasn't good as Stands with a Fist. I always thought she was brilliant in the role and attempted to defend her, but failed (he's pretty narrow minded when it comes to stuff like that). When I read the book, in which Stands with a Fist is described as being the woman who was "two people", everything Mary did in the film made even more sense. She was torn between two worlds: her biological world and the world she was raised in. Not to mention she was disrupted because of the tragic death of her husband, who truly adored and loved her. Mary played her as being incredibly fragile; I was just waiting for her to have a nervous breakdown the whole film and she's like that in the book as well. She's strong, but breakable; she's capable, but not. She's a very torn being and obviously Mary deserved the Oscar, but whatever.

Going back to Dan's point: DWW couldn't have been with a Native. Like SWAF, he was torn within himself. He had no idea where he belonged and Blake describes in the book Dunbar being "alone" even amongst the Natives (and these are his real, true heart friends). When he meets SWAF, all of a sudden everything moves together and everything makes sense. They complete each other and become one entity so that the dismal feelings they had worn before are shed. If DWW would have fallen for a Native, there would have been conflicts that would have been left unfulfilled whereas this way it's very Romantic and very natural. It could have been interesting the other way around; DWW falling in love with a Native and then proceeding to win the trust of the tribe after that little shocker- but DWW would have had to be a different character and in that way it would have been a completely different book. DWW is about identity, not necessarily breaking down boundaries (it does, but I think the search for self trumps that). He crosses the boundaries enough with falling in love with a widowed white Comanche woman with whom he truly belongs. She is his identity from The Great Spirit just as he is her identity.

I'm still debating about reading THE HOLY ROAD; I've heard it's incredibly depressing and I'd rather believe that the tribe ends up moving and having babies and fighting Cylons... oh wait, wrong story.

The Holy Road (which Mary might star in):

I wrote about DWW so now I have to write about the potential possibility of THE HOLY ROAD being made into a film. I have yet to read it and I'm really hesitant since I didn't care all too much for DWW the book (I mean I enjoyed it, but I was expecting more; it wasn't as bad as when I read LEGENDS OF THE FALL and nearly ripped the book in two, but I certainly thought the film was better than the book for DWW). DWW has officially made its way as my favourite film (excluding The Seventh Seal and Gosford Park) so I'll admit I don't think they can top DWW unless they can somehow make the sequel more beautiful? But I doubt that.

As far as Kevin coming back, that's the one thing I was sort of happy about. Kevin was never supposed to play Dunbar; Viggo was. However, Costner played him and now I think even I would struggle seeing someone else in that role as much as I love Viggo and think Viggo trumps Costner in the acting department any day (not to mention riding). But Costner now IS Dunbar/DWW not to mention he did a hell of an amazing directing job on that film. In many ways the film is flawless. I think my biggest problem with Costner is that I loved him so much in DWW and then I saw him elsewhere and he was the same. I felt kind of cheated so I don't watch many Costner movies as a result (I did like Open Range; I'm giving him credit for that). But I think it will be a struggle to see someone else play Dunbar and to be honest I don't know why Costner didn't sign on.

I think replacing Costner is the biggest problem with facing The Holy Road, however I look at Viggo's history and knowing what he does for a film role, he could easily fill those shoes. It won't be the same, but maybe he could pull it off? When filming Lord of the Rings, the man rode every day not just to ride but because Aragorn is a skilled horseman with a strong relationship with his horse. Viggo actually aided in the training so as to bond closer with the gelding (and eventually bought the horse). Viggo takes his roles incredibly seriously; he's known for doing tons of outside research, not to mention the man is a musician and poet and all around earth man. He just has that presence with him.
*NOTA BENE* One of the trainers fell in love with one of the Andalusians they used in LotR, but she couldn't afford the stallion (yes he is a stud, mhm) since an FEI level Andalusian usually runs around a hundred grand so one that is a stunt horse as well is easily over six digits, even running up to half a million (before an Andalusian even hits the ground they're automatically priced at about $10,000- not a cheap horse). The woman couldn't afford the horse, so Viggo bought him for her.

Okay, done gushing. But if Viggo were to play the part, I know he would take the role seriously and do extensive research and could possibly play a decent Dunbar. Would it compare with Costner? Even I'm willing to admit no it wouldn't and I love Viggo.

If Mary Mac, Tantoo Cardinal, Rodney A. Grant, and Graham Greene reprise their roles, I think that would aid the film immensely. Those were key figures and I would hate to see any of those substituted* (note about below); how they are going to handle Ten Bears and Pretty Shield (because Floyd Westerman and Doris Leader Charge passed away) I have no idea. Of course Blake is writing this script as well so he might change it; as I stated before, I think I much prefer DWW the film to DWW the book. Blake is a screenplay writer over a novelist (another fact: DWW was originally a screenplay, then a book, and then the script again) so therefore I do trust him in his choices of adapting the book to film.

*THE HOLY ROAD takes place ten years after DWW if I'm not mistaken and DWW ended with everyone moving and DWW and SWAF were going to have a kid or had a kid or something along those lines (SWAF tells DWW she thinks she's pregnant), so the eldest child would be ten (they have three total, if I'm not mistaken the youngest being an infant). I hate to even bring this up, but I know this might be a problem for stupid Hollywood: Mary Mac. The woman is gorgeous and to be honest she doesn't look her age. Hell, paired alongside many of young Hollywood she trumps them. When she was in DWW she was older than Costner as well as barely being younger than Tantoo and Graham who played her adopted parents and she was absolutely amazing in that film (go read my review of DWW for some Mary Mac/SWAF gushing). For me, I want to see her on screen and I would love to see her play a mothering SWAF because, well, the woman OWNS that role. And I love watching Mary Mac play a mother (I know I know, so cheesy; she makes me cry in ID4 with that little girl). I can totally buy her playing a woman in her late thirties to early forties; that's not a problem for me and I think most of her fans (including EW.com who I'm convinced is obsessed with her). The problem is Hollywood- would they root for a younger woman to play SWAF simply because Mary Mac is 56? If they did that, I would not only boycott, but throw a massive hissy fit translated into long elaborate letters that I would never send. Seriously, it would be offensive. Costner chose not to be involved (which I still don't know why; it's not like his career is going anywhere and The Holy Road could have been his pickup), but if Mary is booted because of her age... I would be royally pissed.
However, it seems that with the articles floating around about it, people are expecting her to reprise the role. And who knows, maybe Blake will set it fifteen years later. I don't know. I hope they keep it as true to the original as they can. And maybe Mary can finally win that Oscar.

The last thought: the director. I actually saw The Young Black Stallion because the original Black Stallion remains one of my favourite films (it includes the infamous water/beach scene which was like my dream growing up- that film is just one epic piece of art; go see it if you haven't). So Simon Wincer isn't bad; I did love Quigley Down Under and as I said The Young Black Stallion wasn't a bad film (the acting was horrible, but the film itself wasn't bad). He seems to have primarily done kid films or television movies so I'm not so certain he could handle an epic. If the film is going to fail anywhere, I think this might be it, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Who knows, he might blow everyone's minds.

Final thoughts: I would love to see this made if not for any other reason than to get Mary Mac back on the big screen and paired alongside Viggo could be an amazing match. I'm glad BSG has revived her career and here's to hoping that if The Holy Road is made that it turns out to be amazing and blow our minds

wow

very thorough and extensive post and i read it all (believe me, thats a first in my liftetime)!

1. although probably better for a breakthrough film about natives, i would much rather have DWW and SWAF be together. I don't know why, i just really ..... i really thought it was good that they were both the same, and got together and the Sioux accepting this, if you get what i mean? I don't think there would have been much conflict from the Sioux if he had chosen one of the actual tribe to marry, but i think it worked alot better with SWAF, and i love the idea of her In Mourning and then they tell her she can stop. I just love SWAF in that film ...*sigh*

2. Mary McDonnell has to play SWAF again, it would just really irk me for someone else to play the role. I wouldn't watch it. The idea of someone else reprising KC's role is irksome, but Viggo is a good choice i think, because he really does take the time and effort to get into the role. Although no KC, he'll still be bloomin' good i think. They cannot take MM away from the role, they just can't. I would hate Hollywood for a long time if they did!

I watched this film ages ago at the cinema, and I haven't seen it again. I remember I really enjoyed and now I must watch it again so I can see MM. I think she is so amazing in BSG and I can't wait to meet her in Bournemouth in Feb. I will be so totally over awed.

Airlock wrote:wow

very thorough and extensive post and i read it all (believe me, thats a first in my liftetime)!

1. although probably better for a breakthrough film about natives, i would much rather have DWW and SWAF be together. I don't know why, i just really ..... i really thought it was good that they were both the same, and got together and the Sioux accepting this, if you get what i mean? I don't think there would have been much conflict from the Sioux if he had chosen one of the actual tribe to marry, but i think it worked alot better with SWAF, and i love the idea of her In Mourning and then they tell her she can stop. I just love SWAF in that film ...*sigh*

2. Mary McDonnell has to play SWAF again, it would just really irk me for someone else to play the role. I wouldn't watch it. The idea of someone else reprising KC's role is irksome, but Viggo is a good choice i think, because he really does take the time and effort to get into the role. Although no KC, he'll still be bloomin' good i think. They cannot take MM away from the role, they just can't. I would hate Hollywood for a long time if they did!

Garbo. You are amazing!

1. They had already brushed the idea of European and Sioux and with SWAF and her husband, and her grief (which gives me chills to watch) leaves me in no doubt that she loved him very much. And like Garbo said, this was not a story about forbidden love, but about identity so there is no need to have DWW fall in love with a Sioux.

To me it seemed completely natural to the story that SWAF and DWW would end up together. I think that SWAF was kind of like a bridge between the two worlds for DWW. On one hand she had her European heritage and english (lol.. how sweet is is when she calls it 'the talk'), which is something that she shared with DWW. On the other she had her Sioux upbringing and knowledge of their language and culture, which is something that she was able to share with him, acting as a communicator and teaching him how to speak Sioux.

2. If they took MM away, I am not sure if I would want to watch it. Although, by all reports, there is nothing to suggest that they don't want to, in fact most seem to assume that they will. But there is a defeaning silence regarding casting decisions. Is there a possibility that MM is not interested in doing a sequal? Or is it just too early in the production to be expecting answers to casting questions?

Airlock wrote:
2. Mary McDonnell has to play SWAF again, it would just really irk me for someone else to play the role. I wouldn't watch it. The idea of someone else reprising KC's role is irksome, but Viggo is a good choice i think, because he really does take the time and effort to get into the role. Although no KC, he'll still be bloomin' good i think. They cannot take MM away from the role, they just can't. I would hate Hollywood for a long time if they did!

Well, I watched DWW again and I was blown away. It really is a great movie and KC & MM are awsome. Even though it is a long film, the time flew by. The bits with KC's horse being shot and the soldiers, shooting the wolf were very sad though. I love all the sweet and amusing exchanges between KC,Kicking Bird and others.

I am not sure that they should make a sequel. It seems they do this when they can't think what else to do! They should leave well alone as it could tarnish the original. As much as I love MM, she deserves better than a sequel and if they replace her, there is no Frakkin way I would watch it!. I think it is about time that the film studios gave her a hefty role. She is a fantastic actress who is totally underused and underated. BSG has proved that she is incredible and she deserves some reward and recognition for her work. I am not sure if MM would even want to do the sequel without CK as it would lose something without him.