Re: Spoiler Thread

[arial]

[quote="Easterbunnyorc]

These are some interesting points you've got there, though I can't quite follow all of them. Why would the fifth cylon need to look like Adama? If you're referring to Leoben's comment, I'm not sure if we can take this as any sort of evidence, after all, Leoben liked to play with the humans' minds in that episode. Except for the part with the Last Supper picture, the final cylon could just as well be Baltar, if you base your conclusion on D'Anna's and Tigh's reaction alone.

As for final five and injuries: You're right, they can suffer horrible injuries, Tigh and his missing eye are "living" proof.

Of course, you could be right in your suggestion, I'm just grasping at straws here, because I really, really don't want Gaeta to be the final cylon . Him being the final cylon would just not have the same impact on the other characters on the show and on the audience as for instance Bill or Baltar, simply because his role has been far too small in the show, imo.

Yeah, you're probably right about Gaeta's not being a major enough character for his being the fifth to have that much impact. I guess he kinda creeps me out sometimes, so my immediate thought was "cylon!" See how hysteria breeds airlocking? The "looks like Adama" thing was a thought ahead to RDM saying something like "didn't you guys see the resemblance and figure it out?"

If Leoben can lie (maybe he did, maybe he didn't about this issue), why cant TPTB, and the fifth is in the photo, sort of. I say again, if you look at DaVinci's Last Supper (not the only Last Supper by Renaissance artists, by any means), all the "players" are seated behind the table. In BSG's iteration, Adama and Roslin are somewhat in front of the table. Neither seems to be aware of/have any interest in what is going on behind them. Could they be there only metaphorically? That would lead to the conclusion that Adama or Roslin could be the fifth, but love each other so much now that the "instruction" in the table book, "Adama and Roslin don't care" could refer to that. To be honest, given the evolution of some of the cylons, I have no problem with cylon/human hybrids being the next evolutionary step. Anthropology says two evolutionary steps of the human race have coexisted for a time. I wonder if that's not what RDM has had in mind since the beginning of the series. I don't think they'd bring back Zak, whom we've never really even met, just to be the fifth. My main concern about the fifth is that it could be Lee. After finally catching up on the series, I remain committed to my initial reaction: gorgeous, but he's remained a whiney, "entitled" little boy; I would be disappointed in the hype about the importance of the fifth if he was all there is. Yet making him President sure seems to be pointing in that direction.

Forgive my negativism, I just came out of watching "swiss cheese" season three. I had a lot of trouble following because they's say things and I'd think, " , did my dvd player skip an episode - where did that come from?" Then I'd go back and check and no, I hadn't missed anything. Things must have been too subtle for me.

I really like this forum because people debate respectfully. No snide remarks or condescension. And the main interest is BSG and what it all means! Thanks for your comments, Easterbunnyorc.

[Easterbunnyorc]

Yeah, you're probably right about Gaeta's not being a major enough character for his being the fifth to have that much impact. I guess he kinda creeps me out sometimes, so my immediate thought was "cylon!" See how hysteria breeds airlocking? The "looks like Adama" thing was a thought ahead to RDM saying something like "didn't you guys see the resemblance and figure it out?"

If Leoben can lie (maybe he did, maybe he didn't about this issue), why cant TPTB, and the fifth is in the photo, sort of. I say again, if you look at DaVinci's Last Supper (not the only Last Supper by Renaissance artists, by any means), all the "players" are seated behind the table. In BSG's iteration, Adama and Roslin are somewhat in front of the table. Neither seems to be aware of/have any interest in what is going on behind them. Could they be there only metaphorically? That would lead to the conclusion that Adama or Roslin could be the fifth, but love each other so much now that the "instruction" in the table book, "Adama and Roslin don't care" could refer to that. To be honest, given the evolution of some of the cylons, I have no problem with cylon/human hybrids being the next evolutionary step. Anthropology says two evolutionary steps of the human race have coexisted for a time. I wonder if that's not what RDM has had in mind since the beginning of the series. I don't think they'd bring back Zak, whom we've never really even met, just to be the fifth. My main concern about the fifth is that it could be Lee. After finally catching up on the series, I remain committed to my initial reaction: gorgeous, but he's remained a whiney, "entitled" little boy; I would be disappointed in the hype about the importance of the fifth if he was all there is. Yet making him President sure seems to be pointing in that direction.

Forgive my negativism, I just came out of watching "swiss cheese" season three. I had a lot of trouble following because they's say things and I'd think, " , did my dvd player skip an episode - where did that come from?" Then I'd go back and check and no, I hadn't missed anything. Things must have been too subtle for me.

I really like this forum because people debate respectfully. No snide remarks or condescension. And the main interest is BSG and what it all means! Thanks for your comments, Easterbunnyorc.

Oh yes, BSG is making us all paranoid

I rather like your idea that the final cylon is in the Last Supper pic, despite what TPTB have said because imo none of the people that I could think of that are missing in the picture (does that make sense?) would really have much of an impact if they turn out to be the final cylon.
So, who's missing? Let's see...

All cylon models apart from 6 and 8, but I guess we can discard them as candidates anyway. And the same goes for Tory, who's not in the picture either.

Living characters:
Gaeta
Dee
Cottle
Zarek
Hera
Nicky

Dead characters:
Billy
Ellen
Elosha
Maya
Zak
Kat

Zak is out because D'Anna never met him, so her reaction in Eye of Jupiter wouldn't fit with the revelation, Kat and Billy probably wouldn't shock her either. Although she met them during Final Cut, I don't think they really registered with her, if you know what I mean. If it is one of the dead characters that they'll bring back, my preference would be Elosha because garbo has me totally convinced with her theory about the impact of Elosha as the FC.
Of the living characters, the only two that I could see as provoking a shocked reaction from D'Anna would be Zarek and Hera. I'm guessing Hera would be out unless she was floating in her robe in the Eye of Jupiter scene. But it would be a nice twist and go well with your theory about a human/cylon hybrid.
(Note: I'm leaving out Tigh's reaction, because although I saw the 4.5 trailer once, I don't remember his reaction.)

Finally, arial, I agree with you about the forum: it's always nice, peaceful and respectful in here.

Edit:
I just had a thought: Could Bulldog be the final cylon?

[Airlock]

glad you're liking this forum Arial and were there any certain bits you didn't understand in season 3? i noticed that s3 seems to be sort of like Marmite, you either love it or hate it. I agree that the final cylon has to be in the Last Supper pic or else it would be a MASSIVE anti-climax.

Easter - good thinking on the Bulldog thing, because D'anna would definitely know HIM, seeing as he knocked her one! lol However, it leads to the same anti-climax conclusion. It needs to be someone big i think, so the fans aren't disappointed. But WHO is the big question lol.

Arial - loved your summary of Lee Adama!

[arial]

"The Fifth" - sounds like I'm searching for a bottle of liquor instead of a cylon.

Airlock - glad to see you back; I was about to send out a search party. Missed you over the last few days. Thanks for the Lee comments; I was beginning to think I was alone in this. Maybe he'll be the dying leader, because I sure don't want either Adama or Roslin to die (Just read nnaylime's latest story at survivalinstinct and cried my heart out. Head-Bill? What a concept). Wouldn't that be a shock. The young ones die and their parents survive. What, a fundamentalist morality ending? Screw around and you are doomed; stay celibate and you survive. Enough with the celibacy, A and R! I want my porn scene! (subtle is okay, though)

EBO and Airlock - Haven't been back in a few days because I rewatched the mini and planned to go through other seasons looking for clues before saying anything else. Then I thought, did RDM actually have a plan, or has he changed directions as he's gone along? Would either of you, or anyone else reading this, be willing to save me time slogging through RDM searches to figure that out: has he said anything about when he decided who the fifth cylon will be; is it a recent thing or did he know from the start? Just need a starting point for trying to figure this out logically.

EBO - I like that better than writing out your whole screen name. Besides, it makes it sound like you could be EJO's kid!

[Easterbunnyorc]

glad you're liking this forum Arial and were there any certain bits you didn't understand in season 3? i noticed that s3 seems to be sort of like Marmite, you either love it or hate it. I agree that the final cylon has to be in the Last Supper pic or else it would be a MASSIVE anti-climax.

Easter - good thinking on the Bulldog thing, because D'anna would definitely know HIM, seeing as he knocked her one! lol However, it leads to the same anti-climax conclusion. It needs to be someone big i think, so the fans aren't disappointed. But WHO is the big question lol.

Arial - loved your summary of Lee Adama!

(((Airlock)))
I don't really think Bulldog is the final cylon, he would be even more meaningless than Gaeta or Dee. But I just thought I mentioned him seeing as I've never heard him being discussed as the FC

"The Fifth" - sounds like I'm searching for a bottle of liquor instead of a cylon.

Airlock - glad to see you back; I was about to send out a search party. Missed you over the last few days. Thanks for the Lee comments; I was beginning to think I was alone in this. Maybe he'll be the dying leader, because I sure don't want either Adama or Roslin to die (Just read nnaylime's latest story at survivalinstinct and cried my heart out. Head-Bill? What a concept). Wouldn't that be a shock. The young ones die and their parents survive. What, a fundamentalist morality ending? Screw around and you are doomed; stay celibate and you survive. Enough with the celibacy, A and R! I want my porn scene! (subtle is okay, though)

EBO and Airlock - Haven't been back in a few days because I rewatched the mini and planned to go through other seasons looking for clues before saying anything else. Then I thought, did RDM actually have a plan, or has he changed directions as he's gone along? Would either of you, or anyone else reading this, be willing to save me time slogging through RDM searches to figure that out: has he said anything about when he decided who the fifth cylon will be; is it a recent thing or did he know from the start? Just need a starting point for trying to figure this out logically.

EBO - I like that better than writing out your whole screen name. Besides, it makes it sound like you could be EJO's kid!

1. SSWA!
2. I don't know if he ever said when he decided who the final cylon will be, but then again I'm ususally not very up to date/observant when it comes to these things I only remember that it was very early on (mini???) that he decided that there would be 12 models, but I'm not sure if he had figured out who would be the final five at that point. Sorry, can't help you there, arial.
3. Hehe EBO is just fine.

[Airlock]

"The Fifth" - sounds like I'm searching for a bottle of liquor instead of a cylon.

Airlock - glad to see you back; I was about to send out a search party. Missed you over the last few days. Thanks for the Lee comments; I was beginning to think I was alone in this. Maybe he'll be the dying leader, because I sure don't want either Adama or Roslin to die (Just read nnaylime's latest story at survivalinstinct and cried my heart out. Head-Bill? What a concept). Wouldn't that be a shock. The young ones die and their parents survive. What, a fundamentalist morality ending? Screw around and you are doomed; stay celibate and you survive. Enough with the celibacy, A and R! I want my porn scene! (subtle is okay, though)

EBO and Airlock - Haven't been back in a few days because I rewatched the mini and planned to go through other seasons looking for clues before saying anything else. Then I thought, did RDM actually have a plan, or has he changed directions as he's gone along? Would either of you, or anyone else reading this, be willing to save me time slogging through RDM searches to figure that out: has he said anything about when he decided who the fifth cylon will be; is it a recent thing or did he know from the start? Just need a starting point for trying to figure this out logically.

EBO - I like that better than writing out your whole screen name. Besides, it makes it sound like you could be EJO's kid!

1. That would explain the dogs currently running towards me ....
2. That would really destroy Kara's sentence about parents having to die for children to reach their full potential, eh?
3. Did you find any, Arial?
4. I have no idea sorry! I wondered the exact same thing myself actually! Has the final five been chosen for a while? or was it a lottery? Because i think i remember something about the cast saying it was like a lottery or something hehe although they might have been just joking!
5. EBO - your name sounds like a channel or a tv company of some sort. Is it an actual channel company thing or am i just dreaming this up? (i hate it when that happens.)

[Easterbunnyorc]

5. EBO - your name sounds like a channel or a tv company of some sort. Is it an actual channel company thing or am i just dreaming this up? (i hate it when that happens.)

I think you might be confusing this with HBO

[Airlock]

5. EBO - your name sounds like a channel or a tv company of some sort. Is it an actual channel company thing or am i just dreaming this up? (i hate it when that happens.)

I think you might be confusing this with HBO

that's the one! lol thanks! *smacks head*

[arial]

In watching the mini, I didn\'t find that much, but got suspicious of someone else. And then all these other \"coincidences\" came to mind. Sorry, my background is Intelligence, and in that world, coincidences rarely are that, so I guess I get a little paranoid. I\'m sure this has been discussed to death at the end of season 4.0, but I didn\'t find that much at the end of the season in any of the A/R threads. I\'ll admit it; I\'m too lazy to go through thousands of pages in other threads! Here goes:

Why Adama could be a cylon

If anyone can give me a logical answer for each of these questions, I will withdraw my assertion. I\'m having a problem getting my mind around the idea that the final five were made before and differently than the 12 models. What does that mean? Graystone\'s creations or cylon creations? Although, I think, in the end, we will find the fifth cylon to be a reconciling force, not a potentially destructive one. And perhaps there is another… Oh, wait; I’m mixing my mythologies.

1. How much time elapsed from young Husker’s ejection over the ice world until he was recovered? Was the number of hours/days he spent there ever noted by an unbiased party, or did the truce make everyone forget to write it down? Was he already a cylon and did this awaken him? (Remember, as you’ve seen with the other four, memories alone are not reliable for the final five) But, as the Caprica previews indicate, \"skin jobs\" go back even further, when Adama was a teenager (age 60-ish at start of series, minus 50 years). My ideas here would take a real blow if Caprica were to air after the finale.

2. Why did the truce coincide with Husker calling for help on the ice world?

3. And why did the cylon attack come just hours before Adama was to relinquish command of Galactica?

4. Why did Adama not allow the computers to be linked on Galactica? Reasons given were a little weak. The rest of Galactica’s technology wasn’t outdated. He’s not your classic “live in the past” type from whom you’d expect fear and denial of technology.

5. How, on Ragnor, did he almost immediately know Leoben was a cylon when they had not yet any idea about the “skin jobs?” Did the military know of their existence prior to the annihilation of humanity; was that addressed specifically when Adama discussed what he did to Bulldog on his mission? Although young Husker saw evidence of human experimentation on the ice world, he only got sounds of people’s voices when he touched the “goo,” he never saw what the object of the experimentation was.

6. And why did Husker sense anything when he put his hand in the “goo;” I thought that was a cylon-only thing?

7. I understand the early webisodes were about young Husker; was Razor made partially to take us back to look at young Husker, as a reminder of what he did as a young pilot, to make sure everyone was on the same page, so to speak?


Sorry if some of this is confusing; I\'ll admit it, I\'m a little confused on some of the pre-series timelines. I\'ll go through all the seasons and see what I find, while, hopefully, being able to keep an open mind to other potential cylons.

Note: EBO, saw your post; just to let you know I was editing when you posted, so please read again, in case there's anything new to which you want to make a comment. Thanks.

[Easterbunnyorc]

In watching the mini, I didn't find that much, but got suspicious of someone else. And then all these other "coincidences" came to mind. Sorry, my background is Intelligence, and in that world, coincidences rarely are that, so I guess I get a little paranoid. I'm sure this has been discussed to death at the end of season 4.0, but I didn't find that much at the end of the season in any of the A/R threads. I'll admit it; I'm too lazy to go through thousands of pages in other threads! Here goes:

Why Adama could be a cylon

If anyone can give me a logical answer for each of these questions, I will withdraw my assertion. Although, I think, in the end, we will find the fifth cylon to be a reconciling force, not a potentially destructive one. And perhaps there is another… Oh, wait; I’m mixing my mythologies.

1. How much time elapsed from young Husker’s ejection over the ice world until he was recovered? Was the number of hours/days he spent there ever noted by an unbiased party, or did the truce make everyone forget to write it down? Could what is known as the fifth cylon actually be the first “skin job?” (Remember, as you’ve seen with the other four, memories alone are not reliable)

2. Why did the truce coincide with Husker calling for help on the ice world?

3. And why did the cylon attack come just hours before Adama was to relinquish command of Galactica?

4. Why did Adama not allow the computers to be linked on Galactica? The rest of Galactica’s technology wasn’t outdated. He’s not your classic “live in the past” type from whom you’d expect fear and denial of technology.

5. How, on Ragnor, did he almost immediately know Leoben was a cylon when they had not yet any idea about the “skin jobs?” Did the military know of their existence prior to the annihilation of humanity; was that addressed specifically when Adama discussed what he did to Bulldog on his mission? Although young Husker saw evidence of human experimentation on the ice world, he only got sounds of people’s voices when he touched the “goo,” he never saw what the object of the experimentation was.

6. And why did Husker sense anything when he put his hand in the “goo;” I thought that was a cylon-only thing?

7. I understand the early webisodes were about young Husker; was Razor made partially to take us back to look at young Husker, as a reminder of what he did as a young pilot, to make sure everyone was on the same page, so to speak?


I'll go through all the seasons and see what I find, while, hopefully, being able to keep an open mind to other potential cylons.

Didn't he give a reason for the question in #4 during the mini? *iz too tired to check tonight*
As for the rest: I would probably have to rewatch Razor, but I'm nowhere near that in my rewatch yet , but you could be on to something, arial.

That being said: I can't really put my finger on why, but I'm pretty convinced that either Laura or Bill is the Final Cylon, there are not many non-cylon characters left whose revelation would have a major impact, imo.

[arial]

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EBO, I was editing when you posted. Please reread and see if you have any other comments/questions. I had forgotten to factor in the Caprica preview, which puts a whole lot of new ideas out there.

Oh yeah; I've been meaning to ask this. What the heck does NRF stand for; I've wracked my brain - it looks like it should be so logical - but I can't figure it out. (I expect I'll do a *headpalm* when you tell me)
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[Easterbunnyorc]

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EBO, I was editing when you posted. Please reread and see if you have any other comments/questions. I had forgotten to factor in the Caprica preview, which puts a whole lot of new ideas out there.

Oh yeah; I've been meaning to ask this. What the heck does NRF stand for; I've wracked my brain - it looks like it should be so logical - but I can't figure it out. (I expect I'll do a *headpalm* when you tell me)
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Sorry, I only just saw that you posted again. I don't have any further comments at this point, but maybe after I rewatched Razor (whenever that may be ).

[arial]

I have a theory about Laura Roslin's family background that I'd like to present for your consideration.

This started when I saw a pic of skiffy's A/R thread (MM in a white summer dress, hair very red) then looked at zap2it.com's list of favorite redheads, which contained Eric Stoltz (who will play Daniel Graystone in Caprica). I was amazed by their resemblance and it got me thinking: what if LR is a Graystone, perhaps even Daniel Graystone's daughter? It would be such a balanced development: an Adama in love with a Graystone. Well, I went back through Faith over at skiffy's BSG page and toward the end, when LR has her vision of crossing the river and seeing her mother, I froze the screen to look at the other people surrounding her mother. When they first cut to the other side of the river, there's a man in front and to the left (our left, her mother's right) of LR's mother. In one of the other cuts (there are three or four cuts back and forth between LR and her mom) to the far side of the river, the man comes into focus for a second or so. It's not Eric Stoltz, (I'm not sure he had been cast at that point) but the guy looks amazingly like Daniel Graystone from the Caprica trailer; if you look closely at some of the Caprica trailer shots of Graystone, his hair is slicked back, but a little longer than it appears at first glance.

Check out both Faith and the Caprica trailer and see if you don't find an amazing resemblance.
(random question: who are all the uniformed types around LR's mom? Did she come from a military family?)

I mentioned the Graystones at another site and was told RDM said no other family relationships will be presented in 4.5 - like RDM has never misled us, right?

Okay, what do you all think? It seems so logical to me, but what do I know.

[Easterbunnyorc]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a promo! Or should I say THE promo? Finally! Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYRNL_u_KIg
(The quality sucks, but it's better than nothing.)

Thank you, brokencircle, for the info.

Arial, I haven't forgotten that I promised you my thoughts on your Caprica theory, but I still haven't had time to rewatch "Faith" yet. Sorry!

[Easterbunnyorc]

I have a theory about Laura Roslin's family background that I'd like to present for your consideration.

This started when I saw a pic of skiffy's A/R thread (MM in a white summer dress, hair very red) then looked at zap2it.com's list of favorite redheads, which contained Eric Stoltz (who will play Daniel Graystone in Caprica). I was amazed by their resemblance and it got me thinking: what if LR is a Graystone, perhaps even Daniel Graystone's daughter? It would be such a balanced development: an Adama in love with a Graystone. Well, I went back through Faith over at skiffy's BSG page and toward the end, when LR has her vision of crossing the river and seeing her mother, I froze the screen to look at the other people surrounding her mother. When they first cut to the other side of the river, there's a man in front and to the left (our left, her mother's right) of LR's mother. In one of the other cuts (there are three or four cuts back and forth between LR and her mom) to the far side of the river, the man comes into focus for a second or so. It's not Eric Stoltz, (I'm not sure he had been cast at that point) but the guy looks amazingly like Daniel Graystone from the Caprica trailer; if you look closely at some of the Caprica trailer shots of Graystone, his hair is slicked back, but a little longer than it appears at first glance.

Check out both Faith and the Caprica trailer and see if you don't find an amazing resemblance.
(random question: who are all the uniformed types around LR's mom? Did she come from a military family?)

I mentioned the Graystones at another site and was told RDM said no other family relationships will be presented in 4.5 - like RDM has never misled us, right?

Okay, what do you all think? It seems so logical to me, but what do I know.

Okay, I finally rewatched Faith and the Caprica trailer. (Mind you, I only had time to watch both once so I may not have been as observant as I probably should be to answer to your theory.)
I agree that it could be possible that the man you're describing could be Daniel Graystone, but I'm not quite sure if the connection isn't a bit far fetched. On the one hand it would be cool if Laura was a Greystone of some sort. That would be another pillar or whatever you want to call it for the Romeo and Juliet resemblance, you know, two feuding families and all that. And if Laura turned out to be a daughter of Greystone, then she would have to show up or be mentione in "Caprica" at some point (not played by MM obviously), so we would get a bit more family background for her.
On the other hand, this would only work if Daniel Greystone dies as a young man - and we don't know if that will happen yet. Also, since the events that are supposed to take place in "Caprica" have not been mentioned so far in the story of BSG, I'm not quite sure if it would make sense for RDM and DE to establish a connection between Laura and Greystone. I mean, unless we get a full explanation of where the cylons and esp. skinjobs come from in 4.5, I don't see at what point Greystone and his connection to Bill's father would be relevant to the final part of BSG, i.e. why Greystone should be mentioned at all in BSG.
Sorry, I just realize that it all sounds completely rambling, but apparently I'm having trouble getting my thoughts in some sort of order

But it sure is fun to speculate about a possible connection. And after rewatching the trailer I can only repeat myself: Want. To. See. Caprica!

As for your random question: With the first Cylon war I would imagine that every family has the odd member(s) of the military somewhere in their family tree.